Wanna Cry?

update (0.00 / 0)

The EMS are treating "lots" of people for respiratory and cardiac problems.

The fastest way to power is through identification

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by: sufimarie @ Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 20:42:51 PM CDT

according to.... (1.50 / 2)

a reliable report from the scene, the police were allowing the protesters to stay in the park and on the sidewalk, and issued several orders to return to those areas when the group tried to block the street.

When the crowd would not disperse, the police responded with crowd control tactics which included the tear gas.

Until the crowd disobeyed the commands to return to the safe areas, the police on scene were totally cool with their presence.  

I'm voting for "that one", my friends, you betcha, wink wink and not because I'm from Scranton.

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by: superPinko @ Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 22:49:45 PM CDT

about the above comment (0.00 / 0)

The above commenter registered merely to post this baseless comment.  Though they mention "reliable sources," they do not actually cite any. Ten bucks says a law enforcement or government official posted the above comment.  

Don't believe government lies about our Police State without solid evidence.  I am confident that we will all see that the police aggravated the tension against ENTIRELY PEACEFUL American citizens.

Nice try!

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by: evamarie @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 08:43:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually... (0.00 / 0)

I used to be registered under a different name and personally know more than one person on this site, but most specifically johne. Based on this post, he can likely confirm that I would know this information.

I do have inside information but due to my job I can't legally post the specifics, as much as I might like to.


I'm voting for "that one", my friends, you betcha, wink wink and not because I'm from Scranton.

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by: superPinko @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:27:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

and to add... (0.00 / 0)

I don't and can't speak for the DPD, as far as how things went out of sight of the Capitol building. My reports strictly come from the state capitol, and what may or may not have happened once people moved to the other side of the park, and whether the police force was excessive by that time is up to the people there, and legal observers present in that area.

But no, not a troll. Just interested in fair and balanced commentary, rather than shrill responses about police state behavior, and as far as registering immediately beforehand because I couldn't locate the password to my old log in, and the name isn't relevant any more anyway. My email address that I used to sign up has my real name, and offline, I'd be happy to discuss what exactly I know and why, after it's over. Maybe over beers at DL or something.  

I'm voting for "that one", my friends, you betcha, wink wink and not because I'm from Scranton.

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by: superPinko @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nice (4.00 / 1)

I was thinking about posting a more welcoming message to you because hopefully we will have more and varied voices joining at us at SquareState.

I am happy to play whack-a-troll where warranted, but the goal here is to build community and broaden access, so shouting down the new folks is probably not what we want to be doing.

It looks like you know your way around though.

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by: Aaron Silverstein @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 12:56:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks for the welcome.... (0.00 / 0)

I agree, open dialogue is important, because you realize after a while that even differences of opinion may have some major similarities in the underpinnings of thought. Shouting and being aggressive don't go terribly far though. I'm glad to see that the post down below also supports what essentially was the report I have, from a different POV. It's good to hear what people actually on the ground are seeing, because even perspectives of 100 feet difference can be a world of difference in what people see as the 'facts' of the incident.

And I wholly support whacking trolls when appropriate. I am definitely not one, however. :)

I'm voting for "that one", my friends, you betcha, wink wink and not because I'm from Scranton.

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by: superPinko @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 15:14:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you do? n/t (0.00 / 0)

revolution from within

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by: johne @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 15:22:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, you know me.... (0.00 / 0)

formerly snomonster......

I'm voting for "that one", my friends, you betcha, wink wink and not because I'm from Scranton.

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by: superPinko @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 16:59:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Really? A zero? (4.00 / 1)

Registering just before posting a controversial comment is suspicious, but troll-rating this specific comment seems way out of line.

Anyone got firsthand stories?

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by: 300spartansgym @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 10:55:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right to Assemble and Petition for Redress of Grievences (0.00 / 0)

CQ Politics

Tear gas was dispersed on a crowd of screaming demonstrators who had been attending a rally at the Civic Center Park. The protesters' decision to march on the capitol building without a permit started the confrontation.

As of 7:30 p.m., about 200 protestors and 100 police officers in full riot gear were on the scene. Several police vehicles were en route, sirens blazing.

Police encircled a group of about 50 protesters on 15th Avenue, not allowing them to leave. More tear gas has been used and several more arrests were made as the crowd chanted "let them go!"

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by: Aaron Silverstein @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 09:21:45 AM CDT

What? (3.00 / 1)

I told you the cops were goons, and gonna beat the hell outta some people that don't deserve it.

 

Huh? No one beat anyone. Talk about flying off the handle.  

http://steampoweredopinions.bl...

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by: Steve Balboni @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 09:44:32 AM CDT

I know this post is old (0.00 / 0)

and I was too busy during the DNC to see that it caused some controversy but for the record, the cops DID beat the hell out of some people. I heard stories from Denver about incidents and did you see the RNC? That was goonish to say the least.

And to moose at the bottom: you wrote that you witnessed protestors screaming obscenities at the police and that you were impressed that the police didn't respond. I'm sorry but the cops don't get extra credit for not failing to do their jobs.

Its still astonishing to me that people accept freedom cages and free speech zones with such little resistance. I don't feel safer with the police locked, loaded & out in droves. I have had enough experience to know that sometimes, its the police people need to be protected from. Is this ever in question?  

The fastest way to power is through identification

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by: sufimarie @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:45:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

What did the cops do? (0.00 / 0)

Old but still relevant.  

We're not talking about the RNC.

When specifically did the police beat the hell out of some people at the DNC?

The ONLY example I saw is the video of a cop shoving a demonstrator, a woman, in the park.  His actions were probably unwarranted, but as Chris Rock says, I don't approve, but I understand.  

Let me give you a hypothetical:  You are a barista at a Starbucks, and a customer gets in your face and screams at you about how Starbucks needs to get out of town, that local coffee shops are better, that sort of thing.  Screams so loud that spittle flies out of his mouth all over you.  What do you do?  You call the police if you're smart; if you're not, you pop them in the mouth.  

Now, the police show up, and the customer has moved outside to a public place, but continues to scream and shout at the police and passersby, throwing his coffee on the ground, splashing it on the shoes of a policeman, making threatening gestures and cursing at poeple coming out of the starbucks, and yelling about the quality of the coffee.  

If you were the barista, would you expect the police to arrest the guy?  I would.  If the police instead told the guy to leave the area and he refused, would you expect the police to arrest him then?  I would.  If the guy kept screaming in the policeman's face after the policeman told him he was under arrest and he was to get down on the ground, would you be surprised if the policeman knocked him down on the ground physically and cuffed him?  I wouldn't.  

Now imagine if the guy was a girl, does that change things?  It shouldn't.  

The fact is, the police, with a few exceptions (and I know of only one), behaved well.  Can you say the same thing about the protestors?  I can't.

To say that the police should not be given credit for doing their jobs, well, that's far too idealistic.  Cops are under-trained, underpaid, and overworked, just like our military and teachers.  I think the ones that are doing a good job should be recognized for that.

Moose Mamet

Contrarian

http://moosemamet.com

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by: Moose Mamet @ Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 13:22:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I watched... (4.00 / 1)

...the Denver Post live cam last night as the police in riot gear surrounded not more than 60 protesters against the Wellington Webb building, and released tear gas. (there were at least two rounds of tear gas canisters (with 3-5 pops) set off about 5 minutes apart from each other; you can hear it in the audio and also hear the folks chanting "let us go" and "let them go."

My friend Mary was there (although not one of the protesters) and was hit with the gas. She's visiting from San Fransisco and said that, although she's used to seeing cops in riot gear around protesters, she'd never seen tear gas used on a group. She also said, "wow, Denver cops aren't nice."

Another friend was in the park and has a much more detailed experience in his blog here: http://moosemamet.com/moose_ma...

Yet another friend worked as a medic and treated a handful of people for tear gas and pepper spray. I'm not yet sure how many.

That's all I've got. It is unnerving to me to see so many police in Denver, and I am not sure what else to say about it at this point.

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by: mickki @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 13:24:31 PM CDT

Moose Mamet Replying. (4.00 / 3)

This is Moose Mamet, I'm the friend alluded to above.  I posted what I saw on my website, http://moosemamet.com, click on Moose News to read it.  

To clarify what I saw - and I was not there when the tear gas was popped, I left about 15 minutes prior - it appears to me that there were a lot of people running around last night who had no specific agenda other than to cause trouble and to provoke the police.  They were not carrying signs or saying anything that would lead me to believe they were advocating or protesting a particular position.  

I saw at least 10 people with orange bandannas covering their mouths and noses that had "F*** the Police" on them.  What cause are they trying to advance or protest, other than provoking police?  

The police were remarkably restrained in my opinion.  There were about 30 people scattered in and around the crowd of 150-200, screaming at the police, shouting obscenities and insults, and the police were ignoring it completely.  Again, to be perfectly clear - 30 people were yelling at the police, and 170 or so weren't.  

The police that I saw stayed composed and collected despite being cursed at and insulted, and I was impressed.  If someone had gotten up in my face like that, I'd've been hard pressed to not pop him.  

Since I wasn't there when the tear gas popped, I'm not going to speculate on what lead up to it or who was caught downwind.

But to clarify a couple of things - first, the riot police do not carry guns.  The patrolmen do.  But then they have much different missions. The riot police use non-lethal means to disperse crowds that are assembling unlawfully (without a permit, in a dangerous way like blocking traffic, damaging property, etc.).  And "unlawfully" includes disobeying orders to disperse.  There were people intentionally blocking traffic, so the police have the duty to disperse that crowd.  First, they tell people to disperse, over and over again, then they use non-lethal means to encourage people to leave, then they arrest those that still won't comply.  The patrolmen, on the other hand, do not get involved in riot control - their job is to protect citizens from those that can harm them.

If people still want to protest after being told to leave one area, individuals are within their rights to walk anywhere they want in Denver and spread their message.  I was in Lodo for an hour and a half after leaving Civic Park, and I saw three or four people protesting civilly, and there were plenty of people willing to listen, and the police had no problem with it as long as they were civil.  

So in the interest of full disclosure, I am not a policeman or fireman or anything like that.  I did serve 10 years in the military as a logistics advisor, and I was a terrible officer - too opinionated and outspoken.  I've gotten gassed probably around 10 times while in the Army without a gas mask on, and another 10 while wearing a mask, and it sucks but it doesn't kill you.  I got out 5 years ago and taught English for a few years, now I'm a stay at home dad and a starving artist.

Thanks for listening.

Moose Mamet

Contrarian

http://moosemamet.com

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by: Moose Mamet @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 14:35:54 PM CDT